Scaling Up Success Podcast

The Buffalo Strategy: Thriving in Uncertainty with Brent Hultman

• Ryan Van Ornum • Season 1 • Episode 25

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Scaling a business isn’t just about tactics, it’s about breaking through the fear that keeps entrepreneurs stuck in cycles of hesitation and survival mode. In a powerful conversation with Brent Holtman, founder of Kairos Profit Coach, we explore what really holds small businesses back from sustainable growth. Brent introduces the "buffalo strategy", facing challenges head-on instead of waiting them out. Through real-world case studies, including two construction companies that weathered the pandemic with opposite approaches, he shows how bold action during hard times can pave the way for major breakthroughs when the market rebounds.

Brent also tackles common pitfalls like price competition and “founder syndrome.” Instead of trying to outspend corporate giants, he encourages business owners to refine their offerings, using "sharper nails" instead of "bigger hammers." His message: focus on delivering clear value to the right clients. Brent’s insights extend to transitioning out of the "Chief Everything Officer" role and embracing tech like AI as tools for efficiency, not threats. For those torn between starting or buying a business, his advice is surprising: the less glamorous the business sounds, the better the investment. Connect with Brent on LinkedIn or download his free book Time for Profit at KairosProfitCoach.com to unlock actionable strategies that can help you break bottlenecks and grow with confidence.

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Speaker 1:

What's up everybody this Ryan Van Ornam back with another episode of scaling up success power by synergist today I have Brent Holtman on with me today of Cairo's profit coach, brent, how are you doing today, sir?

Speaker 2:

I'm outstanding thanks for asking how about you, ryan?

Speaker 1:

man, I'm fantastic. If I was any better, I'd be you. You, man. You are just living your best life. So tell us a little bit about what you got going on. Let's dive right into there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, outstanding. Thank you for that. Yeah, so really, kairos Profit Coaches has two focuses One, I work with small businesses to help those business owners to scale up, to increase their revenue and their profitability, and then, in addition to that, I work with small business coaches to equip them with strategies and approaches whereby they can do the same thing for other small business owners. So it's really a force multiplier where you know, I can work with a few small businesses and then I can work with a few coaches who, in turn, can work with some small businesses and we get more impact for more people.

Speaker 1:

I love that, I love that and how you know. Obviously you didn't start overnight doing that stuff. How did you, how did you build that up?

Speaker 2:

Gosh, you know it's really been a lifelong journey. I've always been interested in business and entrepreneurial activities, started out as an elementary school kid. The excess tomatoes and cucumbers that were in the garden. I took them door to door and sold them and got to the point where the neighbors would stop me and say so, when is the produce coming in? Neighbors would stop me and say so, when is the produce coming in? And so it's really been truly a lifelong journey. And working with tech startups to coaching businesses, to you name it, large and small. So you know, really the theme throughout has been how to impact other people and how to work together to get the most benefit to the most folks impact other people and how to work together to get the most benefit to the most folks.

Speaker 1:

Man, you were a healthier salesman back in the day than I was when I was in middle school. I'll just give you a quick little insight. Middle school I went to the local donut shop and I would buy a dozen donuts and they were like this big, they were huge, and I would sell them. I would buy them for a dollar and sell them for $3 to my classmates, so like. But you are so much healthier selling the vegetables as opposed to the donuts. So I like your style. If you can sell vegetables, you can sell anything, my friend. Nice work. So what have you seen with businesses right now that are like where's the bottlenecks that you've been seeing, with a lot of people trying to scale lately?

Speaker 2:

Wow, and you know that's an excellent question.

Speaker 2:

And right now is a unique phenomenon in that you know we've been through a lot, you know there's COVID, and the list goes on Right. You know we've been through a lot, you know there's COVID, and the list goes on Right. But what's really the biggest bottleneck, if you will, is people's uncertainty and the fear factor, where I think a lot of them are sitting on their hands and doing nothing. And of course, that really is a concern, because if you do nothing long enough, inevitably the outcome is not a good thing.

Speaker 1:

Right, right. And how many times that you see that people are just polarized by fear as a whole man. And then what happens, is it? It almost creates like complacency, because like we're getting, we're getting by, but like to me and tell me if I'm wrong. But like complacency to me is like the killer of most business.

Speaker 2:

Oh, you're so right, you're so right. And you know that hesitation, the fear that leads to the inertia and that complacency, you know. I think back to COVID. I had two clients. One was both construction companies. One was ready to decide how to make things happen. During that lockdown and all that craziness, they doubled their revenue and profit. Another business, same areas, similar kind of deal. The guy freaked out, laid off all his people, sold off everything and retired. Oh my God, he did okay, but his business was gone. His people had to go figure out. Okay, now what?

Speaker 1:

And so to me that's just a classic example, and today I look at, for example, people who were heavily dependent on federal contract and and maybe actually end up thriving in spite of it, while everybody else is going out of business of the buffalo right, the buffalo is one of the few animals that charges into the storm and you know like, instead of waiting for that storm to come and just like just pummel you, you just get through it and get on the other side, and usually what happens is you're farther ahead than most other people in that situation, because you dealt with the hard stuff first. Then I guess the second piece of that is like being able to build in a bear market versus a bull market. You know, like what? Typically, what we've seen is like when stuff is, you know, going sideways, or like even like when people are sitting on their hands, or like even when they start calling it a recession or whatever.

Speaker 1:

It is the people that build in these times. They can make it in any time. When it's, it's when, when there's when stuff's going well, there's, a lot of people are like, yep, I'm, I'm the best ever, right, but when stuff is going sideways and you're like, hey, I, I I'm just getting through, but I'm still building into this, those are the companies that, like, are really going to take over when it starts going well? Can you comment on those, those two things that I talked about?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I couldn't agree more because really that strength that's built through pushing into the adversity. You know if you can push forward in the worst of times, you can just skyrocket when things are good. Plus, you've got some momentum where you're not doing a cold start and you're ahead of everybody else Because you're pressing forward. You're actually leaning into an opportunity where you can just, you know, break loose as soon as things improve, whereas everybody else kind of comes along and they start off the same line at the same time. And then a lot of times that's where we keep getting those repeating cycles of business owners don't want to compete a price, but they've avoided anything that they might perceive as risky or where it's just a lot of effort. So at the end of the day they wait until things are better and then they all end up saying the same thing and competing on price and of course what they're really doing is entering a race to the bottom.

Speaker 1:

Right. One of my mentors in business told me, in the absence of value, it always comes back to price, absolutely so how do you coach your clients to be able to handle that objection around price and more about value?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and actually in Time for Profit, one of my books, I'll talk specifically about the fact that, because a small business can't afford a big hammer like the big global companies have.

Speaker 2:

Where you know, companies that everybody on the planet knows by name still spend hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing and advertising because they want to stay where they are, are and they can afford to do that, but for an average business they can't and they can't emulate what the big globals do. So what they really need to do is have a sharper nail. In other words, they need to really have a tight, spot-on understanding of who their ideal client is, how they differentiate themselves from the competition and the specific value benefit that their ideal clients get from working with them. Therefore, it's not a commodity. How cheap is the whatever available for it's? These folks get me as the consumer or as the customer, and they understand exactly what my problem is and they've got a spot-on solution for me, and that sets you apart to where you know. There's always some consideration of, you know, best value, but there's a lot more to value than price.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I couldn't have said it better. So you basically have to be the Liam Neeson of your business industry. You have to have a particular set of skills.

Speaker 2:

I love that analogy.

Speaker 1:

So that's the kind of you know, if you get that granular with what you do now, you set yourself apart from everybody else and your value proposition is much more succinct and people will remember you because of it. Yep, spot on. And it and your value proposition is is much more succinct and people will remember you because of it. Yep, spot on, love it, awesome. So one of the things and we talked about this a little bit already but like I mean the industries and the markets are, are, are kind of like in flex. Uh, how, how do people stay ahead of industry trends right now? Man, like I mean, with what you've got going on, you're always kind of seeing what's happening. Can you give some advice to some business owners right now on that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you know, one of the interesting things is talking to business owners very regularly. If you ask them so, do you see a certain thing happening in your industry? It's really interesting how often business owners will say well, you know, I really don't pay any attention to my industry. Oh, that's the kiss of death, exactly, and if that in fact is true, you're right, it's kiss of death little bit of. I'm confused by this is how do you compete, even if it's only on price, if you're completely out of the loop on what's going on in your, with your competition in your industry? So, opposite that, investing energy in being aware of competition, what's going on in the industry, and how you can really separate yourself from the pack. And you got to look at the competition so that you can see what everybody's saying, what everybody's doing, and not do that.

Speaker 1:

I played in college for volleyball and one of the things if you're not scouting your competition ahead of time and you're coming in with a game plan, you're basically just telling us like we want to get our tails kicked as soon as we come on the court. So, like you know just you know staying in your own little bubble and, like you know, sticking your head in the sand. Where do you go with that? How do you, how do you help a business owner that that feels that way?

Speaker 2:

help a business owner that that feels that way. Well, and you know, sometimes it's it's by uh, awareness of impact. And what comes to mind in that context is think about all of the huge companies that at one point were the dominant player in whatever blockbuster video. You know where they thought they had it nailed and they weren't paying attention, and they're gone.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And I could name for the rest of the day examples like that. But to help businesses of all sizes understand that, if you're not looking at a couple of things one, what's the competition doing? What's technology's impact, because that's become huge, and how can you separate yourself from every asset, a facet of business is affected by technology in one way or another.

Speaker 2:

Right now right it absolutely is, in fact, internally with, with coaches. We talk about how critical a tool AI has become really in everything. But you know critical a tool AI has become really in everything. But you know, for most business owners, if they're not understanding, first of all, it's not a alternative to us. It's a very powerful tool for human beings to use and for business owners to leverage and understanding how to really take advantage of that and stay in sync with that, as it benefits growth and innovation and all the different things that keep us sharp, such that we can have people do more valuable work. Really let the AI provide stronger foundations so that we get the opportunity to continue to thrive as we're utilizing those things. And I think about people that say, well, I'm not going to get into AI. It reminds me of the point in time when people thought that automobiles were passing fast.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And the thing that I see too is like, uh, there's a lot of people that live in fear because of those things Like, and it's the fear of the unknown instead of like diving into it just a little bit, as long as it's not Terminator two, skynet type of stuff, like this stuff is like where it's actually going to help you be more productive. And you know, you know, maybe it's a shameless plug, but you know synergists, we can help with this kind of stuff. This is what we focus on is the AI side of stuff, but the you know it's, it's putting the right, the right type of technology into your business. So then now you're way more productive, or your team is way more productive to be able to grow and enhance your business. So then now you're way more productive, or your team is way more productive to be able to grow and enhance your business. Would you agree?

Speaker 2:

Oh, totally agree, yeah, and I'm glad you did the shameless plug, because there are certain things that we should own and there are certain things we should partner with people who really are doing a lot of that heavy lifting and keeping current, so we don't have to be as deep in the weeds with those things.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. Cause then you get better at doing what you do. That's right. Cause I to me like I don't. I don't want to be my own assistant, I suck at that job. And like I would rather make more money by doing more sales, whether it's being able to get more contracting, painting jobs or whatever role that I am in in a certain industry. I would rather be good at what I do than trying to be my own assistant.

Speaker 2:

Oh, you're so right and you think about. A joke that I use once in a while is a lot of small business owners are truly CEOs, chief everything officers.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And it's a fear thing. They're afraid to let go, they're concerned that if they don't do it, it's equip people to do things and empower them to do things and have procedures so there's a consistent, sustainable and repeatable model. And that's all stuff that I like to get into with small business owners, because it's overwhelming, it's exhausting trying to do everything all by yourself and it's such a huge limiter trying to do everything all by yourself and it's such a huge limiter.

Speaker 1:

So how many, how many businesses have you seen along the way that have grown up from like that? They started on their own and then now they've grown to I don't know? Maybe a half dozen, maybe 10 people, but they're still trying to like manage everything themselves instead of being able to, because maybe they're not good at understanding how to build standing operating procedures or certain aspects of processes that can really increase the functionality and the profitability of a business.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's common, very, very common. Because you have that. You know this company company. They've been in business 20 years and their revenue is x and it's like they hit a ceiling. Well, the limitation typically is the owner. It's a founder syndrome problem and sometimes it's a matter of helping the the founder of the business owner, understand that it's okay to let go of some things, but not just to throw it out the window, and, whether they're doing things themselves or having others do them, to give them specific strategies and implementation processes and that's, in time, time for profit. We get into some of that of you know. Here's what you need to know. We get into some of that of you know. Here's what you need to know. And what you need to know is everywhere. Everybody gives you that, but here's what you need to do to get from knowing it to having it as part of what you do every day.

Speaker 1:

And that's really the secret sauce. So I'm going to go a little bit more into our conversation that we've had in the past for our audience, to our conversation that we've had in the past for our audience, that you actually took me through an assessment of certain things that could help grow our business at a certain level, at different ways, and it was really revealing and you could talk about this too that, like being open and honest about your business, if you didn't know certain things about your business or different levels of it, it's amazing where that profitability can really scale pretty quickly. And that's the assessment that you put me through. So go ahead and talk a little bit more about that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and, Ryan, thanks for mentioning that, because it's it's kind of the case of we don't know what we don't know. Right, and most everybody in business whether it's a doctor, a dentist, you know a plumbing contractor, a hairdresser, you name it they know what they do and they know it really well typically, yeah, but they're oftentimes never equipped with the nuts and bolts of okay, how do I run a business while I'm doing my business? And even people with MBAs, oftentimes going through that process, like what you and I did, they'll say you know what. They didn't cover any of this when I got my MBA and what this is about is those you know, exposing those things that we need.

Speaker 2:

We don't know, we don't know, and then, once we know it, having the courage to recognize that I can either just continue on the way I am and you know, continue to get the outcome I've always gotten and we all know what that's the definition of right or we can recognize that you know there are some very specific things and it's not like I have to take a bulldozer through the front door. It's small, incremental changes that come together and create a compound impact, like what you and I looked at with your business. Right, it's like this and this and this, and you put it all together and it's a pretty striking impact. But each little piece along the way is a doable task that you can get your head around and put in play.

Speaker 1:

And this is where I think having a coach is really beneficial. And I'll just kind of use the analogy of. I'm a big sports fan. So, like back in the day, michael Jordan, mj he was, he was the goat, the greatest of all time in basketball and but he didn't start there. He had Doug Collins as a as a coach, who was a very good coach. They made the playoffs all the time, but he didn't get past the certain round. He got. He got kicked out by the, the, the Pistons, a couple of years in a row and he lost a couple other teams along the way. And then Phil Jackson came in and then Phil Jackson and him won six championships together because it was a, it was a different voice. He had the right coaching at the right time with the right people surrounded around him and watched what could happen. So that's my plug for you and the gangster that you are in the side of business coaching. So you know it really takes people to another level as having a business coach. So kudos to you, sir.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much, ryan, and I appreciate what you said. And I have coaches, I coach coaches and all of us if we want to really be at the top of our game. I love the analogy because you think about it. I don't care if it's tennis, golf, football, basketball the people that really are top of their game and really are making things happen. They all have coaches.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and that's that's where cause you can't see it all, you really can't. Yeah, I mean, even as a business owner, like I try to stay above, like I try to stay at like 10,000 foot view. Like I have 15 employees that work for me, I have a sales team of six or eight people right now my, my sales team in the process and the director of operations handles a lot of that kind of stuff. They're like the grass, they're, they're on the ground ground making sure that all those operations are happening. I try to stay at five to 10,000 feet, but there's like the 30,000 foot view that I'm missing and that's the thing that people can't. Like you can't, you got to get out of your own way. Like you've got to be able to have that coach, like that's seen, it been through it all with so many other people. And like, hey, you want to take your business to another level.

Speaker 2:

Here's the things that you're missing. You're. Oh my god, why didn't I see that? It's because, like I haven't been through it before, you have.

Speaker 2:

Well, and ryan, remember, when we first started talking, we looked at, I asked you you know how how much time, uh, business owners in your, in your industry, spend not fighting fires and working in their business, but actually working on their business. Right, I went into the formula of the specific things to work on and for most business owners, before I show them that they work in their business because stuff's on fire and it's comfortable, they know how to work in their business. But a lot of them, if you said, okay, do you spend 20% of your time working on your business, and whether you're spending any time on it or up to 20%, what specifically are you working on? Because a lot of times you say, yeah, everybody knows we should work on our businesses, but then, if you follow that up with, what specifically would you work on during that work on your business time? What specifically would you work on during that work on your business time?

Speaker 1:

Most people have never been equipped with specific things that make sense to get a return on investment. For that time, I love it. I love it. Couldn't have said it better. So, as we've kind of, you know, wrapping this thing up, one of the things that I always ask people is like what's one piece of advice that you would give to somebody that's like starting their entrepreneurial journey? People is like what's one piece of advice that you would give to somebody that's like starting their entrepreneurial journey? Is it like, um, let me, let me give you two scenarios, and this is what I like hearing from business coaches Is it better to um to to start your own business or to buy a business?

Speaker 2:

Ah, wow, um, you know there's trade-offs. And let me start with buy a business. Some years ago a friend of mine was deciding to move from a large corporate kind of situation where he had some money coming with him and he's trying to decide what should I do do? And uh, what he finally landed on was a used auto parts, uh salvage yard. And he said this thing it's.

Speaker 2:

I've got people that that know that industry inside out. They love doing it. I just have to show up, do the books and keep an eye on things. And he said what I realized is the less sexy at a cocktail party a business opportunity is the better investment. So I say that to say if you're going to buy a business, be thoughtful about what you're getting, what its impact is going to be, and if it's something that works for you. That would be the one thing. And then the other piece of it is if your heart and soul is into it's got to be my baby and I'm going to start it from scratch make a look and be sure that it really is something that solves a problem that somebody else is aware they have and that they really want a solution, because if they don't want what you got. I don't care what you do. You really don't have a business.

Speaker 1:

Man, you are spot on with all of this stuff today. So I, man, thank you so much for for for coming on and being a part of this. Uh, I could talk to you for hours. Uh, it's just, it's just a delight to have you on the show and, um, if people are interested in your books, if people are interested in in your business, how can people get ahold of you?

Speaker 2:

You know, I'm on LinkedIn. Brent Holtman is how to get to me on LinkedIn. That's always a good way to connect. And then the other would be Kairosprofitcoachcom, and that's K-A-I-R-O-S profit P-R-O-F-I-T coach. So all just a string com and actually the Time for Profit P-R-O-F-I-T Coach. So I'll just the string com and actually the Time for Profit book is available there as a free download. My Engage how to Attract and Inspire High-Performance Teams is available on Amazon and I think I may be the only Brett Holtman author on Amazon with that book. So LinkedIn, my website, kairosprofitcoachcom, or if you want to look at the leadership book, which is fairly autobiographical. So if you feel offended by it, no, I'm really not talking about you, I'm talking about myself. So those are probably the best ways. I love it.

Speaker 1:

And all that stuff is down in the product, in the description below, in the comments as well. Uh, brent, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on. Thank you so much for being a part of the scaling up success podcast Always a pleasure right Take care. Awesome. Thank you so much Once again, Ryan Van Arm, scaling up success podcast brought to you by synergist. Have a wonderful day everyone.

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